Curse

N E D M · Sep 29, 2007, 12:39 PM // 12:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

You can't read, can you? Because if you could and read the damn topic you would know that GW was advertised as a multiplayer game but also a game in which you can play with computer AI.
Besides, you won't be the one telling me how I'm supposed to play buddy. You want to deal with pugs? Fine, I'm sure you enjoy company of wammos, but since I won't ever play with you, give me 7 heroes because nothing will change for YOU.

A net has only said about a million times it isn't going to happen.
How about you go post in the thread suggesting level cap be raised above 20?
Why dont you go post some concept classes now?
I think new professions in GW is real likely too...
Why not start some more threads suggesting things that a-net has repeatedly said they will not do.

You troll

P.S. - I AM the Alpha and the Omega. Suprised you recognized me.

BlackSephir · Sep 29, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

A net has only said about a million times it isn't going to happen.

And it's been said before- things change. But I guess you'd have to read the thread to know about it, but I expect too much from special people like you.

Quote:

How about you go post in the thread suggesting level cap be raised above 20?

Great example of strawman, nice trolling.

Quote:

Why dont you go post some concept classes now?

And once again

Quote:

Why not start some more threads suggesting things that a-net has repeatedly said they will not do.

Because, once again so you'd understand, things do change.

Quote:

You troll

What was that about 20 lvl cap?

Crom The Pale · Sep 29, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

It's no longer a real question of 'if' Anet will do this, it has become a question of WHY NOT?

I still stand by my reasoning that since I'm using 3heros/4hench now my using 7heros would have 0 impact on others.

Stating that those who pug now would suddenly stop just because they have more options now then before is a joke. I was using 7 Hench long long before the heros came out, it was just a more convienent way for me to play. As for spending time to equip my Heros, there are these things called drops, maybe youve heard of them? I've probably merched more runes than I would need to outfit 100 heros. As for weapons its amazing how well collector items work for them, max stats with nice mods. Infact if you have the option to use 3heros now, would it not make sense to equip all of them, or do you use the same 3 heros every time you play????

Drops are better with live people, the game is easier with live people.

Heros are a convinience that we would like, nothing more.

Jetdoc · Sep 29, 2007, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Stating that those who pug now would suddenly stop just because they have more options now then before is a joke. I was using 7 Hench long long before the heros came out, it was just a more convienent way for me to play.

Drops are better with live people.

Please read my numerous posts on the impact to PuGs. As I've said before, yes, there are a number of players that use AI exclusively and some that play with others exclusively, but there is a significant number of players that decide on a regular basis whether to use a PuG or AI. Seven heroes impacts more than those that use AI exclusively, such as yourself.

I have no idea where you get "drops are better with live people". I would wholeheartedly support a change to make this happen (i.e. giving incentives to play with other people), but this does not currently exist in the game.

the_jos · Sep 29, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

It's no longer a real question of 'if' Anet will do this, it has become a question of WHY NOT?
......
Heros are a convinience that we would like, nothing more.

Wow, you just answered your question yourself

It's no longer a real question 'if' A-net will do this, because they said no

The question 'why not' has also been answered by them (not satisfying for some) and several people in the at least 3 threads here on guru on this topic have been given additional reasons why not. Again, not everyone is satisfied because they just want more heroes. Reasoning does not help in arguments with the newly converted members of the 7-hero religion.
They only spill their arguments like 'PuG is already broken', 'it does not hurt anyone', 'I cannot play the game they way I want' without considering the arguments of people that have questions on 7 heroes.
People in my guild confirmed every place in GW, including HM is playable with H&H, except those without henchmen in outposts (guess what, those were intended for human parties...).

Let me tell you one thing.
I cannot play the way I want either.
I would be able to team up with 8 humans all the time.
But when I want to, I have to wait very long or arrange something outside the game (sign-ups at general forums, guild forum or alliance forum).

This is something that has been broken a very long time, has a direct relationship to the intentions of the designers (social aspect of the game) and does benefit the community more than converting the game to a solo-game!
A-net fixed part of it with the party window.
However, this does only work for people in a certain outpost.

So I request better scheduling and teaming mechanics for both guild/alliance/friend teams and PuGs.

Implementing this would not hurt the solo-player.
It would not change the way they play.
But, opposed to the 7-heroes thing, it would fix a real problem in the game.
And it is something that A-net thinks is important.

Now tell me, why should A-net dedicate resources to a gimmic 'would like' and not fix a problem?

Vinraith · Sep 29, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

I have no idea where you get "drops are better with live people". I would wholeheartedly support a change to make this happen (i.e. giving incentives to play with other people), but this does not currently exist in the game.

There's really no end to your desire to screw people that don't play the way you play, is there? If you're so intent on being rid of people that like to solo, if their presence (despite having no impact on you at all) is so offensive, go play a game that doesn't allow it and leave us alone.

I mean, you don't see SP gamers arguing that there should be a limit on the number of humans in a party, or that groups with more people (since the game's easier that way) should get lesser drops. I don't care how you play, I don't want to screw up the game for you, why are you so intent on trying to ruin it for me?

Fox Reeveheart · Sep 29, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

If I could have 7 heroes I would attempt to surround myself with hot buxom babes o.O

Jora...
Xandra...
Hayda...
Gwen...
Livia...
Tahlkora...
Zenmai...

Mmm yes. My dream orgy....err...team.

If they need to remake one it's tahlkora >.> is it just me or are the GW:EN chicks much more.... well they got... more ... "assets"?

Vinraith · Sep 29, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

So I request better scheduling and teaming mechanics for both guild/alliance/friend teams and PuGs.

I'd second that, actually. As the game ages, there need to be mechanisms for both groups (PUGgers and limited MP/SP players) to be able to play with a dwindling supply of other gamers and ever-increasing challenges. Your request would help PUGgers as well as those of us that like to MP with friends but have trouble coordinating schedules. 7 heroes would help fill the time gaps between those scheduled games and allow us to play SP in most every area of the game. I tend to see them as complementary requests, for all that you clearly don't.

Havre Fras · Sep 29, 2007, 04:17 PM // 16:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart

If I could have 7 heroes I would attempt to surround myself with hot buxom babes o.O

Jora...
Xandra...
Hayda...
Gwen...
Livia...
Tahlkora...
Zenmai...

Mmm yes. My dream orgy....err...team.

If they need to remake one it's tahlkora >.> is it just me or are the GW:EN chicks much more.... well they got... more ... "assets"?

Wait, did you say Gwen is hot?

They're ugly as hell, even Danika is more "sexable" than her, even though she does have an irritating voice (not as bad as Gwen's). At least she doesn't have a face like a welder's bench.

Hmm, come to think of it they both do...

Carboplatin · Sep 29, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

i would to have 7 heros at a time. imagine all the builds you can try without the logistical nightmares. imageine being able to have an all paragon team, anytime, anywhere.

but that would involve anet giving us heros that can take up any primary profession..

Dawgboy · Sep 29, 2007, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I think if we could use 7 heroes it would "gently encourage" me to buy GWEN.
As it is, I see no reason to have 30ish heroes if you can only use three.

I only h/h, and before heroes came out I strictly henched. I had a few early experiences with pugs and I'm finished playing this game with people. If that means I can't do a few high-lvl missions because the henchies are gimped then oh, well.
Anet CAN'T force me to pug. I play to have fun, and I don't care about "socializing" with other people.

Draikin · Sep 29, 2007, 05:07 PM // 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

So I request better scheduling and teaming mechanics for both guild/alliance/friend teams and PuGs.

Implementing this would not hurt the solo-player.
It would not change the way they play.
But, opposed to the 7-heroes thing, it would fix a real problem in the game.

It does solve a problem (not being able to fully customize their team) but for the solo player. Better scheduling solves a different problem (not being able to find other people to play with) for the team player. But instead of solving that second problem, it's apparently easier to put limitations on the solo player (can only customize 32 skills instead of 64 in a team, only use 3 PvE only skills instead of 24) instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

I have no idea where you get "drops are better with live people". I would wholeheartedly support a change to make this happen (i.e. giving incentives to play with other people), but this does not currently exist in the game.

So not only are the current limitations on solo play not enough already, you would introduce even more of them and actively discourage people from solo play?

Mineria · Sep 29, 2007, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dawgboy

I think if we could use 7 heroes it would "gently encourage" me to buy GWEN.
As it is, I see no reason to have 30ish heroes if you can only use three.

I only h/h, and before heroes came out I strictly henched. I had a few early experiences with pugs and I'm finished playing this game with people. If that means I can't do a few high-lvl missions because the henchies are gimped then oh, well.
Anet CAN'T force me to pug. I play to have fun, and I don't care about "socializing" with other people.

And you are saying that you can't play GW:EN with the current H+H party?
How about you get your facts straight.

Vinraith · Sep 29, 2007, 06:15 PM // 18:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mineria

And you are saying that you can't play GW:EN with the current H+H party?
How about you get your facts straight.

Umm, no, he's not saying that at all, nor anything remotely like that. Read before criticizing. He's saying more heroes might be an incentive to buy the expansion if they were actually good for anything, but since NF already has a bunch, and since we can only use 3, there's really no point.

It's actually even worse than that. In most circumstances, you're going to be running a hero monk and a hero MM. That means one hero slot has a choice of 3 monks (if you have NF and GWEN), one slot has a choice of 3 necros, and the other has a choice of nineteen heros. The vast, vast majority of those heroes will never be used on a given character, as a result. I'm honestly not sure why Anet bothered to give us so many if we're not going to be allowed to use them. Quite the waste of effort, really.

zwei2stein · Sep 29, 2007, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I think that Mineria and the_jos attittudes nicely outlined why H/H is preferable to PUGing with general public.

Bryant Again · Sep 29, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Keep in mind that a lot of people don't just h/h because it's easier, they h/h because of all the awful attitudes that they run into.

3 heroes, 7 heroes, no heroes, I won't be PUGing. Sorry, but I've been called too many crude, offensive and home-hitting names to want to ever go back.

Wrath of m0o · Sep 29, 2007, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Hey Vinraith..
Does your alliance have room for our Guild? The Legion of Lost Rulers
I would like to add my guild to yours, since we share the same feelings on some issues.
Mabe we can get an alliance together that support 7/8 Hero Parties.
what do ya think?

wolfwing · Sep 29, 2007, 09:52 PM // 21:52

One reason I would like to see at least 5-7 hero's usable is, more varity. As mentioned before, you really need to use your hero's to pickup the slack with the henchmen, wich means taking 1 monk, and for me 2 henchmen monks, then I'm down to two hero's and since your serverly limited in choices for henchmen, support hero's are really out because the henchmen are just not going to cut it for damage dealing leaving you weakened and in some areas nearly impossible to kill, so your really stuck taking damage dealers for youer hero's. wich means a good chunk never get used.

With 7 hero's you can have 2-3 good monks, a few damage dealers, along with some support chars, maybe some chars that deal with weakening the enemies, or interupting them. More hero's means you can actually try some different party formations.

Mineria · Sep 29, 2007, 09:58 PM // 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

Umm, no, he's not saying that at all, nor anything remotely like that. Read before criticizing. He's saying more heroes might be an incentive to buy the expansion if they were actually good for anything, but since NF already has a bunch, and since we can only use 3, there's really no point.

It's actually even worse than that. In most circumstances, you're going to be running a hero monk and a hero MM. That means one hero slot has a choice of 3 monks (if you have NF and GWEN), one slot has a choice of 3 necros, and the other has a choice of nineteen heros. The vast, vast majority of those heroes will never be used on a given character, as a result. I'm honestly not sure why Anet bothered to give us so many if we're not going to be allowed to use them. Quite the waste of effort, really.

It wasn't criticism, more a remark that we shouldn't forget an important fact.
He is saying, that he can't do some high level missions with henchmen because they are bad.
How come then, that every mission where you can take henchmen, can successfully be done with them?

You are right stating that there is a bunch of heroes and we can only use 3.
Then take a look at sets and weapons, and compare the aspect of skins.
Since you don't get any better stats, only the skin can be chosen.
So maybe the point is, that you can pick those hero pixels that you like the best?

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I think that Mineria and the_jos attittudes nicely outlined why H/H is preferable to PUGing with general public.

What attitude if I may ask?
Did you ever see me call anyone bad names?
You wont even see me do so in game, neither am I the player that insults other because they "don't have the right build".
As long as people are not going afk or rage-quiting when I'm in a pug, I'm happy.
Since I know if we don't make it, I can always make it later with heroes and henches anyway.
But believe me I got a lot of patience.
Reason why I even bother to get into this discussion, is that I honestly think it will break the game.
The line between PvE balancing a mmo/rpg or what you like to call it, is very thin.
If it gets to hard few will try to play it, if it gets to easy many will have nothing left to do, and leave to find something else.

Plus that I pinned out some points regarding the advantage from this idea, for a player with lots of time and the disadvantage for a player with little time.
How would you make it fair for both?

Another deal with 7 heroes controlled by 1 player will be the clutter of flags and skill bars.
I think the current 3 huge none resizeable hero windows are bad enough as they are.

Id rather see, that the hero/henchmen AI bugs get fixed, as well as improve some parts of the AI, and maybe give them some adjustments on their skill bars.
Fix that first, and then we can continue talking about those 7 heroes.

Crom The Pale · Sep 29, 2007, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Did it occur to anyone that having to manage 8 skill bars and 7 flag would be very taxing,and a great way to teach players how to co-ordinate in game. Trying this a few times just might make people WANT to pug.

I know of many many combos I'd love to try, but with Heros its just not possible, they don't use the skills in the order or when I want and managing them can be tiersome. But I still take them over live people most of the time simply because they let me play the game the way I want to.

Aslo the skill layout of the Hench sometimes force what heros I can take. Ive had to live short 1 monk on several occasions when I wish to bring a Rit with Brutal weapon as the protect hench loves to cast enchants that negate it.